Appendix 3:

S. R.: I know that you were the closest friend of Joseph Zisman, whose mother drowned in the Struma. What can you tell me about him and his family?

Prof. Sulitzianu: Joseph “Bebe” Zisman (born 1920) and I were best friends in high school at Liceul Codrianu in Barlad. We both immigrated to Erez Israel in 1940 – I myself at the beginning of the year on the illegal ship Sakarya (arriving on February 12, 1940), and he a few months later. The difference between us was that I arrived illegally, and he arrived legally with a certificate as a student of the Technion. His parents, Carol and Sofie were merchants who had a hardware store in Barlad, selling construction equipment, carpentry supplies etc. Bebe had an older brother called Nasu, who arrived in Israel ten years after the State was established.  I met Nasu several times in Bebe’s home, when I came to visit my friend. Our ties, as I said, went back to our youth. Both of us belonged to the local branch of Beitar in Barlad. The head of the branch was Shabetai Nadiv, who was older than we were and ahead of us in the movement. It was Shabetai who arranged my passage to Eretz Israel. (He sent someone to inform me: You will travel on such and such train etc.)

The Sakarya was a very large ship in the illegal immigration, perhaps the largest. I arrived as a boy of 19. My intention was to go directly to Rosh Pina, to the “Beitar Brigade.” However, before that the illegal immigrants from the ship were detained at Atlit for six months, after the boat was intercepted before it reached the port of Haifa, and transferred directly to Atlit. When we were released, the representatives of the Jewish Agency took us to Tel Aviv to get organized. There were Beitar members from all over Europe on board – Polish branches, Czechoslovakian branches, who reached Romania somehow and waited there for the ship to be organized.

It is important to point out that most of the approximately 2400 immigrants on the ship were not Romanian Jews, but Polish, Czech and German Jews etc. In fact, the Beitar members on board were not many, and constituted a small minority. Likewise most of the immigrants on the ship were older than the Beitar members. As I said, the British stopped the ship before it reached Haifa. Among the illegal ships that arrived after us some were sent to Cyprus.

The Jewish Agency transported us to Tel Aviv, and there the Movement took us under its protection and sent the youngsters among us to the various Beitar labor groups (called Beitar Brigades) in the country. I was in a number of groups: first of all in Rosh Pinah.

S.R.: How did you renew your contact with Joseph?

B.S.: Bebe also came to Rosh Pinah. He knew what was happening with me in Erez Israel from my correspondence with Romania before it joined the war in 1941. For that reason when he arrived he came to me at Rosh Pinah. After a few months that he spent with us in the brigade he fell ill unfortunately and was hospitalized. When he recovered, he did not return to the brigade. He went to work outside the brigade. He worked in a diamond factory in Netanya and I heard from him the bitter news that his mother was on board the Struma and drowned together with all the other passengers in February 1942.

S.R.: What do you know about the relation between Joseph and Prof. Mouchly, when he went to study at the Technion?

B.S.: The professor took him under his aegis. It is important to stress that he gained no material benefit from this connection; The professor helped him in his studies, worked with him on projects, etc.

S.R.: Tell me about enlisting in the British army.

B.S.: I enlisted in the British army in July 1942. I started to study after the 1948 war. I served in Egypt, Syria and Italy. You will be interested to know that Joseph and I also enlisted in the army one after the other. We both served in the 524 Survey Company, a unit that prepared maps.[36]

S.R.: My parents, Nathan and Erna Rubinstein, told me that after the war you visited Barlad in a British uniform.

B.S.: That is correct. I went to Romania with Joseph. Returning to Romania was madness, and worse yet – going there without passports. We just got on a train Italy – Austria – Hungary – Romania. It was folly. But you should remember that the war had just ended, with the Russian-ruled Communists on one side and the West on the other side, while nothing was organized or stable yet. There were no arrangements yet for passage from one country to another. We only spoke English between ourselves. When we crossed borders we showed our military papers. The border guards did not know English. Nevertheless, it was a complicated adventure. We reached Bucharest and each of us went to his family.[37] I went on to Barlad and he stayed in Bucharest. It was like a dream. I remember that I went with my father to visit my high school principal, Prof. Ursu, who at the time was still the principal. I had gone to high school with his son. On the way we passed the school building, which I remember to this day.

In my conversation with Ursu I tried to clarify what about the other Romanian students who studied with me. It turned out that some of my friends were no longer in Barlad – they were at University.

Getting back to Joseph. My friendship with him continued until his death, twenty years ago. He had a fine professional career. He was a part-time professor at the Technion – lecturing there in the Department of Architecture – and at the same time had a private architectural office in Haifa.

I began my medical studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem only after the “War of Independence,” and eventually attained the title professor.